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Culver Cadet Section => Culver General Discussion => Topic started by: Woody on December 30, 2011, 09:27:29 AM

Title: For you Culver guys
Post by: Woody on December 30, 2011, 09:27:29 AM
You guys that have already been through the process of restoring a Culver and are flying, don't forget us newbies that are struggling.  I for one need any data as best type of prop you are using for speed, climbing etc.  What to do that helps cruise speed?  What is old hat to some are desperately needed by others and we are a small group.  Anyone know of planes just sitting, stored parts, engine parts etc. You get the Idea. Money is also helpful so if anyone knows where some is ~~ PLEASE call me!   W
Title: Re: For you Culver guys
Post by: Bill Poynter on December 30, 2011, 09:56:16 AM
Hi Woody,  Here's a link to the Sensenich Installation List for wooden propellers: http://www.sensenich.com/files/documents/Application_Guides_Certified_Wood_Aricraft_Propeller_Application_Guide_1324495270.pdf  (http://www.sensenich.com/files/documents/Application_Guides_Certified_Wood_Aricraft_Propeller_Application_Guide_1324495270.pdf) This guide doesn't list a model for the Cadet with a 90 HP Franklin, only the 80 HP model.  I believe that the W70AF-54 would be a good cruise prop for the Cadet with a 90 Franklin. 

I've been told by a prop manufacturer that all companies don't calculate the effective pitch the same way as Sensenich.  Be alert for this if you elect to use another brand.

I once had an LFA with an Aeromatic prop.  The crankshaft has to be cut off to mount the Aeromatic on a Franklin.  This setup didn't seem to help the performance at all.
 

Title: Re: For you Culver guys
Post by: Woody on December 30, 2011, 02:40:08 PM
Good info, thanks Bill.  I just returned from delivering the engine for rebuilding so I'm already anticipating being in the air! I have a Flotarp 74-54 that came with the plane.  I was told that it was a bit aggressive and for climbing ??
Title: Re: For you Culver guys
Post by: Scott Crosby on December 30, 2011, 03:58:59 PM
Hey Woody - Who are you having rebuild your Franklin?  I will be facing this issue soon or deciding if I should tackle  it myself.
Thanks,
Scott Crosby
Title: Re: For you Culver guys
Post by: Woody on December 31, 2011, 11:39:30 AM
Scott,
 I found an A&P that does engine work and is very knowledgeable.  Very clean environment and very focused.  He and a friend  have restored Franklin's before so they took my engine. They are at the Melbourne Ar. airport which is about 40 miles N. of me.  When you decide, let me know and I'll see if he is interested.  Where is your home base?     W
Title: Re: For you Culver guys
Post by: JoeB on January 01, 2012, 10:29:31 PM
I believe that the W70AF-54 would be a good cruise prop for the Cadet with a 90 Franklin. 

Hello Everyone,

I just spoke with Sensenich a week or so ago on this topic and the W70AF-5x is not approved for the 90hp Franklin (The TC specifies only up to 80hp for the 'AF').
The approved propeller for the 90hp Franklin engine is a W70AB-5x (My recent purchase has a W70AB-54, unfortunately I can not give any reviews as I have not yet flown behind it)

Best regards,
Joe
Title: Re: For you Culver guys
Post by: Woody on January 04, 2012, 10:47:14 AM
Okay guys, somewhere in Arkansas there is another complete Culver Cadet hanging in a hanger. I'm told it is not for sale but things do change.  It is in central Ar. somewhere so keep looking.  If I get more info I'll let you know as I don't see the guy that has seen it hanging in the hanger in some small airport.
Title: Re: For you Culver guys
Post by: Paul Rule on January 04, 2012, 04:15:27 PM
I have flown the Sensenich  -54 prop on a Franklin 90 and found it a little high reving, more like a climb prop.  I think I remember that -54 inches is the maximum pitch for that TC.  Talked with one of the old prop guys Sensenich who told me that there is a manufacturing "plus/minus" on pitch and that if requested, he could make one to the high limit which would be closer to a mid range pitch.

Just a personal observation...  such a clean airframe and wide speed envelope... I have seen 3 different props on the Franklin 90 that would all overspeed in level flight even up at 9500'.  I am not sure there is any (fixed pitch) prop that would not do so.  I do know that years ago 1 (or more) Cadet, probably with 75hp, flew off the end of the runway in ground effect.  I expect it had a high pitch prop and may not have made the minimum static RPM on the ground run.
Title: Re: For you Culver guys
Post by: Brett Lovett on January 05, 2012, 12:48:12 PM
I don't believe that Culver equipped any LFA models with the 90 Franklin, so I doubt there's any documentation for a recommended prop for that model.  However the Model L-AR-90 (Army PQ-8) was equipped with the Franklin 4AC-199-E-4 (Army YO-200-1).  The library at University of Texas at Dallas has a copy of the Culver Aircraft Corporation Specification No. 13 for the L-AR-90 in it's Al Mooney collection.  It specifies a Sensenich 70AB56 propeller.
Title: Re: For you Culver guys
Post by: Paul Rule on January 05, 2012, 02:34:59 PM
The 90hp 4AC-199E3 is listed in the Culver TC and requires a static RPM range of 2200 to 2300rpm and a diameter of 68" to 70".  Under propeller (for both Franklins) it says "wood-fixed or adjustable pitch".  To find if a prop is elegable to install you must look at the propeller TC sheet. 

Looking at the Sensenich TC sheet P-170 ... the W70AB (and the W72DF if it has been cut down to at least 70") are the only ones that fits a Franklin and are rated for 90HP.  So if you want Sensenich you are stuck with those props.  If you are still running the 80hp then (due to higher RPM) you have the choice of only the W70AF model.

In looking at the prop TC I see that my memory is failing... the elegable pitch range for the W70AB is 46" to 56".